Morning Folks!!
If you can't handle the truth then stop reading and go buy a comic book. I have stated for years that the bar to entering domaining is very low and when you look at how some look at their business it becomes obvious.
Even domain flippers are selling collectible and unique assets with an income producing potential with a global presence. Except many of them don't know it. They think they are selling a PRODUCT they buy for $100 and sell for $200 or $300. They mark it up like inventory. Inventory??
So this caught my eye. 'You devalued your domains by offering them everywhere for sale: forums, brokers, flippers, your mom. Hold them locked up like a virgin in a harem, next time.'
Copyright DomainGang.com:http://domaingang.com/domain-news/71-reasons-why-your-domains-suck/
Well those words are PRICELESS. The #1 challenge the Domain Industry has always faced is being a whore to make a sale and never understanding the TRUE value of a domain name. I have talked about it before. For many years. But Lucius put it in a very succinct sentence.
This week I used the Beep.me domain as an example. A $2000 sale of a domain could EASILY be worth INTO the 6 figures. First of all wtf is anyone or any company selling a domain like that for $2k?? A PREMIUM domain name worthy of much better then a $2000 sale. So sales are going down not because business sucks but because of things like this. All these companies should have QUALIFIED folks on staff to comb thru domains like this and not let them slip thru. Problem is the 50 people on the planet that may be qualified to do that have their own gigs and the last thing they need is a job.
This was just easy pickins for me because I think it was a good illustration. And if Beep.me has no value then the 1900 .whatevers don't either. But a 'Natural' is a 'Natural' and THAT is the key to any .whatever. If it is just a word with a .crap extension it will always be limited in value and business if any at all. But the top .whatevers will have some 'Natural' sounding things that have a chance. But that is the extent of it.
Half of you will jump on .crap and put a crappier name in front of it. Shitty.Crap. Which at least has MEANING! If you put Shitty.Crap out there I guarantee it is self explanatory. May not work as well with unrelatedwordsstucktogether.crap
Don't even get me started. I just see some companies undervaluing their assets in a way that is unfathomable to me. But that is their business and not for me to say this or that. So I don't want these companies to take offense. I can list many. Maybe all. Not that bad for a domain investor. But I have the ability to look at it from their side of the table and the least these companies need to do is isolate 6 and 7 figure domain names.
MOST domainers would flip that domain for $5k in 24 hours. BAD MOVE!!! At LEAST know the difference between a $5 domain and a $250,000 one. $100,000 on a rainy day. Fine, don't agree. But then you are no domain investor either. Maybe it is $25,000 or $50,000. Doesn't matter.
The point is even if you are a domain flipper this business is MUCH MORE than doubling or tripling the price against your cost. It is understanding you are in the diamond business whether you want to be or not and all diamonds are not the same. Beep.me is a diamond to somebody.
If I had the time I would open my own appraisal service and charge folks $250 each for a no bullshit Rick Schwartz valuation. Of course the ones I certify as 'Pigeon Shit' would make the owners very unhappy. lol But I would have to focus on domains with a minimum value of $25,000. But who has the time?
I have said for years that the only difference between a $3000 call girl and a $50 corner whore is the asking price and the value they put on themselves. I have seen beautiful $50 street whores and some homely $3000 call girls. (Seen, not used lol)
But domains can be truly measured for value in a number of ways. The automated ones are silly. They don't work. They factor in many pieces of the equation but fail to factor in the key pieces. TheDomains.com did a piece where they valued the domains at the TRAFFIC Auction at $1.85MM.
Well I like to mental masturbate as much as the next guy but the TRAFFIC Auction list is not worth $1.85MM and if it is, some folks are going to get some incredible bargains.
Just to be clear…
Flipping is just short term investing. Nothing wrong with that at all. It’s a great way to make a lot of money. I just prefer the long term outlook because it is less work and I have the luxury of waiting and that was my approach from the get go so that’s how I roll. 
But even that does not always work out as I lose money on domains sometimes too. lol
99% of the domains I see have very limited value. 1% have value. 1% of those have great value. So when you are in a diamond mine only morons talk about the glass. The pros are busy looking for the diamonds in all that crap pile of glass. They only talk diamonds. And hopefully the biggest and best diamonds they can find.
Point is to STUDY first and then decide to sell or hold. Do you know how many emails I get from people that got a domain 5 SECONDS ago?? Flip less and make more!! Work smarter, not harder. Good luck!
Have a GREAT Day!
Rick Schwartz
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RaTHeaD
i don’t get you on this one. i don’t see .montenegro any more valuable than .tuvalu. i know about your monster sale of meet.me but that seemed like a fluke to me. i may be wrong but i don’t think so. i mean beep.me as a possible 7 figure name?… seriously? i got questions about that evaluation. look at what’s happened to .sy. art.sy is now a crappy artsy.net domain name because they tried to cheap it. a great product but i’m sure the price of artsy.com is nowthrough the roof. just my opinion… other opinions may differ.
Rick Schwartz
.sy spells and means what?
Me on the otherhand is important to everyone.
Like in the phrase….”What’s in it for me”
Me is really important to most people.
.sy is important to who? For what? and it means?
Mark B
Great Post Rick… In my opinion, Mr Schwartz is one of the only domainers that truly”gets it”
BullS
Good domains are like good whores- they are easy but Not cheap.
Aaron Strong
If .me has value because of it’s meaning then .us should be valued much more. Besides meaning United States it also has a meaning of”us” referring to a group. I imagine the plural reference and the country of the United States would make .US more valuable…….But, the general public is unaware of these extensions so they are either undervalued or worthless.
M.G.
@Rick
After a long time I see an excellent post from you. I respect you, even I am not your fan, …but at this one I am 100% with you.
Chris
Beep.me for six figures? The meet.me sale was a fluke. Great job on getting that price for it, but in no way/shape/form is that domain going to reach break even for the company.
If it was reversed, and they owned Meet.me then I could see them buying MeetMe.com for six figures, not the other way around.
And beepers died in the 90’s, not sure what other ‘beep’ anyone would be doing.
steve
beep.me has got value since some people realized the greatness of .me , what could be better than .me for creative apps.
But what is the true value of creative domains….that is so hard to measure. Clearly today I would ask min. of 8k and would try to get 16k for beep.me
After meet.me sold for 250k you gotta shake your head. Hell go ask a top domainer for their opinion of beep.me before you give it away.
Zeke
After reading Ricks post I have a feeling you may be missing one small thing.
When’s the last time you were not able to pay your rent RS or been able to pay for a meal??
Its obvious people today are taking a beating financially and when people are desperate they sell anything at whatever they can get and FAST!
The majority of domainers have not had the fortune to have sold 2 domains for $750k (ireports) for 1 small example of your successes, so waiting for the bigger $$$ may not be realistic for them
Molly
Rick Shchwartz has a super power called ‘luck’ (not belittling his talents).
ireport.com proves Rick was born under a lucky star.
The Gods just love him.
EmergingDomains
Great article! Except, I could have done without the call girl/corner girl bit. Other than that, fantastic!
WillCall
This is a surreal discussion. talk about a domain that’s Dead On Arrival! Frankly,”Beep.me” is just a dumb, largely useless domain whose shelf-life expired 20 years ago (…or was it 15!?)
I wouldn’t pay a nickel more than $300 for”Beep.me” …and I’d be dead right.
Now,”Call.me” …”Text.me” …”Love.me” …hell, even,”Race.me” or”Have.me” …these are evergreen, and not built (solely) on some nostalgic fad whose”time in the sun” has long since passed (and will never, ever return).
Observer
Dot com will be promoted to emperor from king after all the whatever extensions take their places.
UFO
I’d tend to say that beep.me has more limited value than 6 figures simply because it would need a solid business model and the value is in the business model than the domain itself.
BUT, a good business model preferably requires a closely aligned domain to leverage it. beep.me doesn’t have that much value at a UK consumer level because I’m not even sure what the expression would relate to… does it me text me? call me? or anything that makes my phone ring? or some other connotation.
Stu Holly
The value of any domain depends on the buyer’s willingness to succeed, fortune favours the brave.
UFO
‘fortune favours the brave.’
Unfortuately plenty of investors go out on a limb and spend far too much at the outset and then realise with experience that there was a quicker cheaper and more efficient way of skinning that cat.
I know of more than a few seriously good domains have had untold spent on them without a decent business model in the background or lack of sufficient capital to fully take it to market (The concept).
Anyway, thats where domain leasing comes in. Domain owners will get more nibbles at the bait (In theory) as VC internet based ideas can leverage themselves up and conduct effectively a proof of concept before getting additional capital to take greater ownership of the domain.
tcr
i agree on alot you write but beep.me i just can’t get my arms around your est. nobody says that phrase, we don’t use it and the younger generation certainly doesn’t.
Rick Schwartz
You folks are so hung up on my valuation. It’s like you can only follow shny objects.
The POINT of Beep.me is it is a NATURAL domain name with meaning as opposed to MOST that are pigeon shit. VERBS and ADJECTIVES should be the discussion.
Selling a domain for $1000 and then seeing it used by GE in a commercial should be the discussion. But I am sure some MORON will tell me he made a killing!
The REASON one domain can have GREAT value and one have NO value should be the discussion.
Half of you will jump on .crap and put a crappier name in front of it. Shitty.Crap. Which at least has MEANING! If you put Shitty.Crap out there I guarantee it is self explanatory. May not work as well with unrelatedwordsstucktogether.crap
Altaf
Great article Rick. But we all are responsible for selling the diamonds so cheap. Except you what we folks did to teach the common domainers a great lesson how to evaluate his diamond or glass. How many free books have we published for reaching the common folks to understand a domain.Yes, since i knew you, you dedicated your life and time along with a few other folks to tirelessly arranging”boards” ,”forums””meetings””symposiums”,”T.R.A.F.F.I.Cs” within your means & resources. Still many parts of the globe did not get the idea how to evaluate a top valued domain. This is our bad luck that we ignored them who are holding or flipping the best domains @ so cheap due to their ignorance. Please,with your golden touch, invite the folks to do more to publicize lessons on domain to common folks around the globe. Gratefully,
windy city
…I would have to concur with Zeke’s reply.
If you are a person of means you can incubate those domain names and get a respectable roi outta them over time.
Where Rick is out of touch with many domainers is that the quick flip provides bills being paid, gas in the car and food on the table for more domainers than he may realize and they get to be called a whore for their honest efforts by respected people like Rick Schwartz for making ends meet.
That ain’t nice to call people making an honest profit outta their name, but that’s the way it goes, I guess…
Rick Schwartz
Excuse me, I am sorry that your only focus is making ends meet.
No matter what level we are at that is still the game.
However the REASON some have a hard time making ends meet is they give their domains away!!!
When you sell a domain for $500 that you should have sold for $50,000, THAT is the REASON your ends don’t meet. DUH!
So whether it is not knowing the value or are just a lousy sales person or you are just weak kneed or whatever……The point is not sell too cheap.
So I have been broke and comfortable so I see it CLEARLY from BOTH sides. Sorry so many just see the one side.
Rick Schwartz
Posts I make are for those WILLING TO MAKE THE VAULT over struggling and getting too comfortable. There is a PATH and selling too cheap is the WRONG PATH when you are trying to make ends meet.
CateTV
I am not a Domainer (Yet!) per se but I have been blessed/open to listen/hear folks not just from the domaining world (of which I didn’t even know existed til about 2007) but from the business world in general. Natural Names, whether they be of the domain variety or not, is the business path being discussed here. I have been working a job waitressing for a few years now to not only pay for the renewal fees for my Names but to keep them for the intrinsic value I believe they may have. Sure I more then likely own a lot of crap domains that I should have already dumped/tried to sell already but it’s the keyword/generic ones albeit they Are .TV that I have held on to year w after year because they have always been intuitive not just to me (who cares what I think right!) but to others!! People who know me ask why I continue to waitress – I rarely answer them with the real reason because they wouldn’t in a million years understand! I would shovel shit, if I had to, to cover the cost to hold on to them and I can only say I am delighted that Rick/Danny are leading the Leasing Charge of something I thought/believed in since 2000! Please don’t get me wrong here – I have had more money then most at times and I have been dirt poor at times! I have sold what to me at the time were valuable possessions to make ends
CateTV
Meet! I’ve also had times when I have been offered some money for my names and came very close to accepting because of our financial situation at the time. I was lucky to have been able to pick up a freelance marketing/branding job to get through those times. I have also reached out to try to sell the names when I saw no light at the end of my financial tunnel. Fortunately, although at the time I would never have admitted so, it didn’t happen. I believe, in my business heart, that we must find a business mentor (not necessarily from the domaining world) to run potential transactions by. They might be able to either bring clarity to our vision OR help us sort out whether or not we truly even have a vision yet!
This is just my two cents coming from someone who has only”sold” (they approached me!) one domain so far – myShoes.TV – I am a business person first and soon to be Domainer second! Thanks :)
windy city
…Of course I respect your opinion but I stand by my post. At this stage of the game you seem very disconnected with the more”common” domainers and maybe you have yet to realize that some of these rules have changed in the 21st century that used to apply in the last one.
It’s a buyers market for the (vast)majority of domain names as technology have evened the playing field and more endusers have more options than they did a decade ago.
People STILL don’t like being called names, though, and bullying tactics like that go NOWHERE.
Thank you for you response, at any rate…
Rick Schwartz
When you focus on an example of being a whore, you have no focus at all.
Whore is the shiny object you are distracted by.
See, i have been where you are but you have never been to where i am.
Do you understand what that means?
So i am closer to reality and the common struggle than you give me credit for
There is a pathway out but since you are hung up on a WORD……
ABL
I given it some thought on this post and see where Rick is coming from.
Flipping out of things has made me buy higher grade domains and we are all trying to climb the mountain one way or the other.
There is probably a core group of names(guessing 25 names) that will not sell cheap and a pure type in traffic. As google, consumers get more confused, seo ego driven people, I will have that traffic. Let the games begin and hidden agendas I call it with .ClusterFuck.
Fun times for all of us. The flip side is Maybe top 500 domainers can think like Rick. Hes an exception to the rule.
There is nothing wrong with buying a domain name for 10 bucks and flip out for 500. or 300.
All I know is this:
1. Domaining has opened the doors for me and seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.
2. I paid my dues and still learning.
3. I wish I did have higher sales volume and did my second best domain sale this year for 15k.
4. Been paying off bad debt, 2 cars paid off, credit card paid off and making progress.
5. A lot of my journey was off due to flipping names.
6. Fuck the noise I call it.
7. I want to be in the top 500 league of domainers. Let the games begin.
8. I dont agree with Rick on everything he says but he is a great leader and helping all of us out. i wish I could have just one name he has LOL.
9. 90 percent of domainers either are losing money, gave up, or said I cant figure things out. I was one of them, lost money first 2 years and didnt know what I was doing.
10. ABL(Always be learning), ABS(Always be selling).
Been a tough year for my family. Deaths. Remember what your thankful for one thing is this: Health.. Money cant buy that. Enjoy the little things in life.
ABL
One last note: My 2 cents:
Try building a pure type in traffic today in .com and its not easy as it seems. Play catch up.
Domain sales are the easy part, try building up a portfolio with revenue and that pure type in play.
I am amazed by how many domainers do not get type in traffic. They are great in sales, know lots of amazing flippers but when it comes to understanding the url bar, the type in domain name, the traffic, the value of the domain name, a good portion of domainers do not get it.
If google says ok, we decided to close parking down, I will have that traffic. So many things to do with this type in traffic.
Some guy on namepros talks a big game on ppc and claims parking is dead. He is a hype domainer and buys expired traffic. Eventually that will catch up to his business model, nothing beats that pure type in play.
windy city
…actually, Rick, I did not use that name to describe another domainer(s), so it may be YOU that is hung up on the name.
As for myself, I am fine where I am without resorting to demeaning others. You offer a lot of sage advice at times but one can cheapen them with sophomoric rhetoric…
windy city
…good post and well put…
CateTV
The Operative word in this Post/Headline is INVESTOR! :)
windy city
…I replied to #26 but it seemed to have faded into cyberspace. I dunno if the”reply” button works or not but I will reiterate:
I was not the one using derogatory terms describing fellow domainers so more than likely YOU may be the one”hung up” on the word since that seems to be your focus. You use it several times and in the headline to boot.
But at any rate, I am quite content with my buying and selling and do not have to demean people in regarding their selling strategies.
You often give sage advice and it is well respected. Unfortunately, you cheapen it with sophomoric banter, as in this article…
# 27, ABL, a well thought out and well put reply. Thank you as that was interseting and informative.
Jerry
Rick, I thoroughly enjoy your posts because of the entertainment value as much as the learning value and this is another great post by you. I started”collecting” or”investing” in domains a few years ago and would buy the pigeon shit that you love to refer to but because of your posts I have started making much better investments. Yes I still slip and buy the pigeon shit on occasion but I usually realize it and let it expire for the next guy. I have acquired around 500 domains so far about half for the area in California that I live. My goal 5 years ago when I started was to lease the domains and I see that has now become a common theme. I don’t publish my domain list anywhere and I get calls on occasion from people wanting to buy one but so far I have never sold one to anyone. No one has wanted to pay my asking price but one day they will. I look forward to your next post!
Rashed
Great Post,
Rick Schwartz
Imagine you own an ice cream store and you only have two flavors. Not vanilla or chocolate which would represent a large chunk of the market. Not Strawberry or Pistachio which would represent even more of the entire market. Now you have accounted for maybe 75% of the entire ice cream market. But you decide on RootBeerBacon and ChiliBarfBagChickenFudge. You find business extremely bad. Every one that comes in and actually buys BARFS! That is the 3 in 1000 that stay and buy after they learn their menu choices don’t include anything normal or anything even appealing. They are also the ones that never come back as barfing isn’t the best incentive to use and so your audience keeps shrinking from zip to zero. lol
Knee Slapper!!
UFO
Common Rick, even you say that a decent domain has type in traffic to justify its popularity.
beep.me is no better than flickr.com tumblr.com who’s value is around their business model and are .com’s to boot.
beep.me is worth about 2k (If its bang on some slang usage evidenced by type in’s), and in fact I’d never pay that. flickr.com and tumblr.com were likely rego cost.
UFO
Do agree with the sentiment though, if you sell whatever you have to whoever puts out first then you’re a cheap Man Whore.
The art of domaining is to be an expensive Man Whore, thats achieved by knowing the value of your goods and understanding how deep the clients pockets are….
lol.
Samit
What do you think Launches.Me is worth? Launch.Me is owned by Yahoo.
Anita
Rick,”See, i have been where you are but you have never been to where i am.” is PRICELESS and TRUE. Many people probably haven’t read about your struggles in your youth so don’t understand that you’re just not some RICH DUDE but one among them, trying to do them good.
Everybody else with something negative to say, the fact that Rick puts himself out there so much is because he cares for the people who are in that boat – the endless cycle to make money and pay your bills. What he’s focussing on is that there are very limited diamonds in domaining and that the education should start at knowing your diamonds from your glass. If you start selling your diamond(s) to protect and buy more glass then you have caused irreversible damage to yourself – try to make any similar mistakes your last.
CateTV, Inspiring and hats off to you but IMO you need to start focussing on .COM they are the most precious diamonds. Major lesson learnt from Rick :-)
Rick I would like to add that domainers are surrounding themselves with naysayers and robots who are discouraging their gut feeling on the value of their diamonds (been there). Majority of the domainer communities and tools are domainers worst enemies (been there too). That’s why the doubt! That’s why the frantic flipping! That’s why the lowered valuation in their own eyes! IMO once you get it – Putting on your blinders, having patience and endurance in collecting more diamonds is the only path to sure success as a domain investor. Slow and steady?? wins the race :-)
CateTV
Thanks Anita and I couldn’t agree with you more :) I will be attending TRAFFIC for the first time this year in Las Vegas – hope to meet you there – I do own a few .com so far – will run by the”pigeon shit” detectors there! One of the best financial books I read several years ago was”THe Unemotional Investor” perhaps someone will step up to the plate and write”The Unemotional Domain Investor” although truth be told it could/should be named”The Unemotional NAME Investor” ! Because after all isn’t that what all these securities/insecurities have in common? :)
Wonder if Blinders are part of the”schwag” at TRAFFIC – Rick? :)
Anita
Cate would have loved to meet up at TRAFFIC – sadly I’m in India and I’ll probably never get to come to US anytime soon – looks like if you are young, mobile and not so rich you are a threat to jobs in the US :-) How can you prove that you will never take up a job when you run your own small ship. lol. Nice to have met a kindred soul though, we can keep in touch via email, my id is on my website.
Jamed
@Molly -“Rick Shchwartz has a super power called ‘luck’ (not belittling his talents).
ireport.com proves Rick was born under a lucky star.
The Gods just love him.”
Where’s the luck in that deal?
Was it ‘luck’ to buy the name ahead of anyone else?
Was it luck to reject multiple offers before settling for 750k?
CateTV
Definitely kindred spirits Anita :) sent you an e – define soon?? Have friends who have collaborated and now have working companies in both locations! Nothing threatening here :)
goodbot
I think a more productive way to look at this issue of some folks selling great domain names “for less than they’re worth”, is in viewing ours more like a brick & mortar business where there are a load of middle-men between the original producer (the first registrant), and the end retail customer (the GE that’s going to put the name in a big $ commercial). I think that most large end-retail-customers don’t (yet) have staff people searching through domain name auction sites on a full time basis looking for great names. The great names that they eventually DO buy come to their consciousness in much different ways. Perhaps one of their ad agencies (the one with the young hipsters that might spend a portion of their days perusing domain name auction sites); or perhaps a chance meeting with a (stranger) salesman at a trade show; or that one-in-a-thousand cold call that made it past the secretary that one day; or the really very pretty young lady salesperson that’s been stopping by the office a few times cold-calling (is anyone familiar with pharmaceutical sales reps? Here in the US, these girls (and guys) are all beauty contest winners… plus (most importantly), they’re GOOD salespeople!) These people are at the end of our long “wholesale” distribution chain… all of us buying and selling good/great domain names between us at prices that just in our hearts seem “too low”… of course they’re too low! Because we’re all the WHOLESALERS (or “WHORESELLERS” as Rick might be wont to say!) in this distribution equation… none of us are end-retail-purchasers. We’re being too hard on fellow domaineers that yield to play the role of one of the many middlemen between the first-registrant and the final end-retail-customer. Most of us don’t have the special talents of these beauty-contest super salespersons that are absolutely going to be the last wholesalers among us before the $1,000,000 end retail purchaser. We’ve all got important roles to play in this long distribution equation. It doesn’t serve anyone’s purpose to denigrate us little guys in the middle. Meanwhile… I’m hiring these super-pretty pharmaceutical reps in my neighborhood to sell my domain names to these deep-pocket end-retail-customers here. Wish me luck (as I move myself further down our long distribution chain to get much closer to that end retail Big-Buck$ buyer)…