Morning Folks!!
It drives me crazy when folks talk about earning enough to cover registration fees. Talk about setting the bar low. All a domain has to do is earn 2.5 CENTS A DAY to be profitable. 2.5 CENTS! 2.5 Sense! Are you kidding me?? Come on, if that is how you look at domains and are still losing, then something is very wrong!
I don't talk about 'Pigeon Shit' domains without a reason. The 'Pigeon Shit' is out of control. What are you folks thinking? There are thousands of you playing a fools game and while many are waking up because they are broke, still others are still buying the POOP!
There is so much PS out there that decent names seem impossible to recognize when you are pissing away dollars and can't even make PENNIES! Stop buying domains that don't mean anything! Lord! gdfkyt.com means NOTHING. Has NO VALUE. Oh yes, only for the next 3 groups coming. The ones focusing on LLLLLLLLLL.com. Folks, they are called WORDS for a reason.
So once you toss out your pigeon shit it allows you to have the dollars for meaningful domains that are BORN every single day of the week. BORN! But when you chase yesterday you can't see that part of the equation.
Opportunity comes and opportunity is born when you are aware and pay attention. It amazes me that EVERY old timer still hand registers domains and the guys with less success always LAUGH at this. Are you kidding me??
If your bills exceed your income it is not the fault of domains! It is the fault of not seeing, understanding and adjusting.
I know it comes over as if I am scolding. But if you are losing money and your family depends on you, maybe it is time to take inventory. Look, I don't go around listing worthless domains. So let me give you some rules like the LLLLLLLLLL.com above.
When I hear this is an 'SEO Friendly' or 'Keyword Rich' or any of that other BOGUS terms to describe a domain name, let me give you the translation. WORTHLESS!
I-have-a-great-domain-name.com is WORTHLESS!
3tg65y3.com is WORTHLESS!
LLLLLLLLLL.com is WORTHLESS!
Domains that confuse o and 0 are WORTHLESS!
One guy sent me a list of 4000 domain names. Every single one was WORTHLESS! But he is pissing away $35,000/year on pure pigeon shit. All he has to do is stop renewing the shit and start over with $35,000 in his pocket. Go buy a REAL set of domain names. Finance a $100k domain for 3 years. He has the POWER and the MONEY to change his destiny. But first I have to change his mind. I am sure he worked hard to put that together. Many hours. Wasted hours and wasted money. He is probably cursing the hell out of me right now. But his life and family are worth more than his pride. That's part of business.
Domains are either an asset or a liability. The difference is 2.5 CENTS a day! It's never too late to start over. If you are running a negative cash flow, the least you should do is begin the process of re-evaluating what you have. Nothing I don't do on a daily basis. I have let over 4000 names drop this year. I don't sell them. They were worthless and my job is not to look for somebody less knowledgeable so I can dump them on. I just let them drop. The only one I sold was Flowers.mobi at a substantial loss and swallowed my pride to unlock those dollars to become more productive.
I know there is real pain out there. I can see the desperation. The worry. The things and emotions we go thru when we know we are not heading in the right direction. But we feel that way when we are not in control. So to fix that....TAKE CONTROL!! Change your direction. Upgrade your portfolio while cleaning out those pigeon droppings.
I started talking about 'Pigeon Shit' for a reason back in 2010. Some thought it was cute. Some thought it was crude. I knew just how serious a problem it really was and how widespread that problem is. It was just the cold hard truth to me and when I see a 'Truth', I never back down from it.
So how do you REALLY know if you own 'Pigeon Shit'? Whether your entire portfolio is suspect? Put it to this test. What percentage of your portfolio meets my test?
Have a GREAT Day!
Rick Schwartz
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Furkat
Some sense of reality! Thanks.
BillW
4000 domains and few or none have any value….WOW, we have all been there maybe on a much smaller scale. If the owner can swallow a bit of pride, maybe that is a list worth sharing for educational purposes that could really be a help to others. Or he may find some willing buyers who could develop some of the names (much better solution that dropping and getting nothing).
The people that are able to make some money even on marginal names are those that have the time to market names and promote them. But that takes lots of time and dedication and list building.
I see small portfolio lists for sale on the 2 main domain forums under”traffic domains”. Most of the names would at first glance qualify as pigeon shit domains, no logical reason for anyone to ever type them in but they are getting traffic and making money.
Gene
“So once you toss out your pigeon sh*t it allows you to have the dollars for meaningful domains that are BORN every single day of the week. BORN! But when you chase yesterday you can’t see that part of the equation.”
Yup, that’s what way too many domain investors don’t get. And they don’t get it mainly because they’re too lazy to put in the 4-8 hours per day of required reading.
There are 24 hours in the day, but if you spend 5 of them playing Xbox, or exchanging photos with your cousin in North Carolina – instead of reading tech blogs, or academic journals -, you’ll never get what ‘chasing yesterday’ means.
Tony
Rick,
I have read over some of your posts in the last 6 months and I must say you have given a complete road map to be a successful domainer as well as just being successful in life. Anyone that reads your words with an open mind and follows your recipe will have many successes in life. For those that continue to complain that old timers don’t share, they must be in a coma and they define being a loser. Keep it coming.
Domainer 99
You rock, Rick. Just wait til the gtld’s hit.
Seems fairly obvious that all of the proposed gtld’s are crap and are of the same caliber as .mobi. It follows then, that all domains registered under them will be classified as PS.
Let’s say you get a really great one that makes excellent sense like restaurant.food.
Big deal. It’s just a silly hack. Just like food.restaurant. Who cares? Needs to be .com. I’d rather have food.com any day.
Maybe simplify life for your readers a bit and tell them to stick exclusively with .com. Anything else is just PS.
Kevin
Professional domain investing is what it is, a very very small club of at most 500 investors on the entire planet who are truly savvy and know how to play, invest and consistently make money in the domain market effectively. And even in that group how many are making a solid 6 and 7 figures a year, year after year? That group is an even small number.
Thus it is what it is. I don’t think the numbers and ways of investing are going to change no matter how intense so many of us who have achieved success over the years keep preaching till we’re blue in the face the”right” way to invest is doing so by purchasing the highest quality domains you can.
Think about the fact that despite being a 15 year old investment realm that’s how tiny the real success core of investors still is. The vast majority of investors in our industry are pie in the sky dreamers who cluelessly throw their money away just like the folks who stand in line to buy lotto tickets every week. And just like the hype billboards the lotto industry has with the pics of”million” dollar winners and hundreds of thousand dollar winners every week, we have our own weekly billboards of success with the DNJournal, Sedo, Afternic, Etc winners lists. LOL
The dreamer’s domain investing model is no different than the lotto model. They figure the more $1 tickets they buy the better the odds they’ll eventually score a winner. And like the lotto, when they get a”free ticket” or $20 payback they get the magical”rush” that keeps them”hooked”. Or go to Vegas and look at the millions of people that sit all day on the slots pulling the handles nonstop. Same mentality.
So the vast majority of investors buy pigeon shit domains because that is their risk level and way of thinking they’re glued to and they absolutely are convinced can one day make them a domaining millionaire too.
You can go to any domain forum, or facebook forum and now even on the linkedin forums, see tons of hypesters trying to sell pigeon shit domains for very small amounts of money. Remarkably, though for most the effort is totally futile, they simply can’t stop themselves from endlessly buying crap and trying to resell it. And enough guys do get occassional flips and make $20 or a $100 that it keeps the process going.
And like you mentioned, the email hypsters, with all their”seo friendly” and”keyword rich” BS, are really out of control peddling pigeon shit domains for $295 and such. What’s even sadder now, they’re trying to sell reg fee domains they haven’t even reg’d yet, cause if you noticed many spammers have started using the phrase”we’re in the process of acquirimg” meaning they’re only reg’ing and flipping the domains that someone actually responds to from the email, so they don’t even own the crap they’re trying to sell.
Despite the dramatic recent downward shifts in the economics of the domain marketplace, the”buy quality domains” philosophy is still sound and quite valid. Hopefully in the years ahead,more domain investors will see the light and develop a stronger investing logic.
There also needs to be some much needed”enlightment” on the part of the successful and savvy millionaire domain investors to know when to accept a great offer and how to price their quality domains properly to sell. Pie in the sky pricing is still a frequent issue on the high end side of our industry too that stiffles the growth for all by not enabling reasonably progressive upward value transactions. There are many very successful domain invesors out there who now deeply regret not accepting the fantastic offers they’ve received over the years but pompously laughed off and turned down. It would be better for the industry if more high end investors would be content to sell a domain acquired for $100,000 at $200,000 instead of pricing it at $2 Million the next day. That way of doing absurd instant 7 figure valuations stops genuine year by year steady asset growth and market expansion dead cold.
2.5 Cent Addict
Not to take away from your great post, Rick, but damn, that was a great assessment by Kevin.
Wow!!! Well written and accurate.
tommy butler
Totally agree what your saying would rather have 10 to 20 top names that 4,000/10,000 other ok names. our biggest break was 9 years ago talking the gamble buy Glasgow.com was the best move we did. Yes as small business owner it was a massive choice for us. Do I buy that domain or should buy stock and sell that. we bought the name. people thought I was mad maybe so but we bought a name that stands out from the crowd. a brand that allowed us to buy up others in same field as that. all takes is one good name.
Acro
Rick, I’ve sold many domains that made zero cents daily on average, or barely their reg fee through the entire year, for thousands of dollars a piece.
How is that possible? By carefully investing in positive, brandable domains.
The PPC industry is artificially dictating what a domain is worth, when in fact a lot of domains with potential make a flat zero from parking. That’s due to the greed trickled down by Google and the middle-men: the parking companies we all love to hate and hate to love.
To overcome this, one can switch to affiliate marketing or full development – still, not a guarantee of profit.
Long story short: research every single domain you buy or register. Use ZFBot.com to locate potential buyers, or other tools.
On the subject of registration fees, they are a business expense; incorporation is a must.
Scott alliy
Talk about the future. With over 850,000 pre registered GTLD extensions from just one mediocre registrar if I read todays HD article correctly then I would have to think that anything GTLD related would be a good future investment.
Time will tell…it always does :-)
P.S. looking forward to attending my first T.R.A.F.F.I.C show in a couple of weeks.
Continued success to you Howard and the other team members that help make T.R.A.F.F.I.C. a success.
Scott Alliy
Clarification I am talking about GTLD support services domain names as in broker, financial advisors consultants etc not which GTLD extensions to speculate on. That GTLD extensions CF as you call it is anyones guess IMO.
Rick Schwartz
Acro,
None of my mainstream domains had ANY traffic when they were registered. But they always had the potential to get traffic. Always had something marketable. Always meant something. But I had the luxury by buying domains with traffic, FIRST. I have talked about the”Revenue Engine” I created that would give me the luxury of holding on for 20 years.
So traffic is not the only thing to look at. But for those that keep losing money, this is the path to dig out.
Alistair Banerjee
Rick,
Absolutely fantastic article. True and harsh but honest.
Very much liked when you suggested letting the names drop rather than trying to dump it on a less knowledgeable domainer.
That’s a good heart right there!!
Danny Pryor
But … but … but 2.5 cents per day is less than the price of a cup of coffee!
Great post, but people can only”listen” to what you write when they are ready. Your experience, Rick, will only matter when the experience of the neophyte starts to match up with your words. They’ll eventually see names like kapiginny.com or lalilosnipsnap.com or xixi.com may be cute, but they’re pebbles of dukey, best reserved as ad-server domains.
“BUT THEY’RE BRANDABLE!!!” some with exclaim. Yes, they are brandable, in as much as they sound catchy. But, what are you selling? You forgot to repeat,”Nothing happens without a sale.” That doesn’t mean one can’t hand-register a domain or 100 of them, and sit on something that will become trendy or part of the culture, eventually generating sales. You’ve made recent posts about that, too. I’m sure someone, somewhere may have learned something.
What about paying attention? That requires reading, not watching porn on PornHub.com or checking out the free beaver shots on AdultLabs.com (how do I know of these things?). Facebook is not exactly the place to”hang out” and learn, either, unless you want to know what people are thinking about our marvelous political process these days.
Read technorati.com or arstechnica.com or check out Zara the Geek on Twitter, if you know who I’m talking about. If not, find out. Pay attention to the contrarians in the economic sector, to the politics of Europe or China or India or Australia. These things will give you ideas for solid names. Paying attention means getting insight and new ideas and, perhaps, a glimmer of vision.
I own mobility domain names that may work well for me, long term. If they don’t, I’ll eventually drop them, but time will tell on that strategy. Time is friend an enemy for a person of my station, but perseverance counts for quite a bit. So does honest belief. My highest-traffic domain was hand-registered. Nobody thought of it. I own the entire space!
Sometimes buying pigeon shit is not the only reason – it is sometimes not any reason – a person’s income doesn’t match up with expenses. Some people start out with virtually nothing. Many still have most of it. If you build the right relationships, sometimes small gaps can be filled when the lean times get leaner.
I don’t make seven figures, yet. I’m working on it. I’m the buy-hold and developer type. I’ve dropped about a dozen names in the past week, and I’m trying to sell another that may bring in a bit of venture capital for my long-term projects. I’ve also bought new names in the past couple weeks. I also have names that were hand-registered (see two paragraphs above) that generate thousands upon thousands of visits per month, and they are growing consistently and well. There’s a plan in the works, and it’s working, so far.
Cynics won’t last long. I’ve been building websites for a day or two, and I’ve been in the domain industry even less time than that. The one thing that matters is vision, belief and acumen. More than anything, it requires a willingness to learn and the ability to LMAO at myself when I really play the wrong card. Sometimes I get really pissed off. Afterward, I laugh. I even cry.
In this industry, we have those who are schemers looking to get rich quick. Others are trying for a long-term investment. Some buy to develop. Some buy and hold. Strategies differ, but anyone who is serious will be a prospector. We are all mining for gold, and some use better tools in their mining operation. Some are scrupulous to a fault, while others give the industry a really bad name.
One thing I know is this, the get-rich-quick ideas just don’t last, but they don’t stop coming, either. Working hard, working smart, developing the right relationships, continuing to learn: all of these things matter if you are willing to eventually become an overnight success. Just be aware the stamina of success takes time to cultivate, and overnight successes, even Rick’s, took more than a couple years to materialize.
Now go hand-register some good names. There are plenty of those out there, too, if you pay attention! But keep them short. Search terms will always be only that: search terms and not good domain names.
.Net's generally suck
Yes, but your .nets generally suck. You may have been able to fool some ignorant business people a few times with your .nets, but nobody with a pulse is buying them.
Maybe you are great at convincing a few people per year to buy no traffic .nets, but so what? Has anyone like Rick, or any other proven successful domainer ever thought about buying you 2nd rate .net extension names? NO THEY HAVEN’T.
Just because people bought overvalued houses, Internet stocks, and lame .nets does not mean that they made good buys.
The .net extension really SUCKS, and anyone who would start a business with a NO TRAFFIC .net that you try to sell them is a MORON. Why would they do that and give away a significant percentage of their business to the dotcom.
Wkae the hell up and stop scamming people into buying names that you would NEVER buy yourself for that price.
Dotcom is king. Name one person who bought a .net from you and established a business around it who is happy with their buy and the price they paid. Name one successful business that started from one of your STINKING .nets.
Acro
Rick, I thought you banned the trolls, so this a*hole above doesn’t really deserve an answer.
Alexander, Mr. Autopilot
Well said, Rick, thank you for another great post!
It’s often an ’emotion’ thing. People hold on to THEIR low grade domains and refuse to let go. Been there … I understand how they feel.
Hope this helps beginners: when you get an acceptable domain offer, seriously research and consider whether it’s best to sell it at that price or ask for a higher offer. Sometimes it’s worth asking for more. Sometimes that potential buyer maybe the only one who’ll make such an offer in many long years to come …
John Lyotier
@Acro… you ignored him, but I will bite. I picked up TeeTimes.net from Page Howe a couple of years ago now (the owner of the .com was not selling). Would I have preferred the .com? Absolutely. However, after a less than $15k in total development and using a monetization method that was open to everyone, we’ve turned it into a business that has sold more than $1.5M in golf inventory. Marketing has been limited to paid search, organic optimization, and nurturing a repeat customer base.
Even if you have a .net, there are still opportunities available if you identify trends and can use your domain to your advantage. Our .net gave us inherent organic advantages, brand recall, and trust with consumers.
Well then why not .biz
Well, if you spent thousands on .net and made it successful, then what advantage did .net give you over, say, .biz, or .cc? And TeeTimes.org sounds just as good.
Every bit of success you have will also come with the FACT that you are GIVING away free success to the dotcom owner, so have fun with that. The flip side is that every bit of success the dotcom owner has will not help you at all.
If you were a consumer, what are you going to take more seriously, the dotcom site or the .net? Page Howe probably laughed his ass off when he sold the name to you.
TeeTimes.net offers no advantage over TeeTimes.org, and the advantage it has over .biz, .cc, .mobi, and other crap extensions is way smaller than the advantage that TeeTimes.com has over the .net.
And just because you sold 1.5 million in golf inventory doesn’t mean anything. How much is profit? How much profit did you leave on the table?
The ceiling is very low for .nets, and you can NEVER overcome the wasted sales that you will never get because you don’t have the dotcom. You can never get a single sale because of a type-in. You also can lose sales from current customers. If someone accidentally lands on the .net and then returns a while later, they very well could type in the dotcom by mistake, and you will lose that sale. But the owner of the dotcom does not have that problem. He will never lose a current customer to the .net. Nobody who types in the dotcom and does business is going to accidentally type in the .net.
Keep dreaming, and keep rationalizing your poor decision.
DRASK
Excellent advice as always Rick from a long time follower. I drove down interstate I-95 last night and on the hundreds of giant billboards I passed, with advertising of course, there was one.net, one .org, a few .edu and the rest .com. I hope the people that pre-registered those 850,00 domain names take a ride on I-95 or any other road before they spend their hard earned money.
P.S. I still register great .com domains every week.
P.P.S With Google changing their algorithm every other week, a simple domain name that describes a product or service that one sells or provides is still the best advice that I (and you) can give.
Morning Folks!!
steve
Did Rick just call my 4000 domains pigeon shit.
That jerk. I cut the list down to 1500 since then. Only about 2 years. Of those 4000 I kept maybe 1000 I liked and still like and bought 500 more. I’ve done much better as the 500 I bought have been selling much better. Yes the key to success is getting rid of the garbage first.
The funny thing is 2 people wanted two domains I dropped and kept calling until I told them I dropped them. But how can you know which 2 of your pigeon shit domains will sell for 2k. Its safer to just not waste money renewing and move on.
Getting it wrong is ok as long as you are willing to change on a dime and head the right way.
But I know there are hundreds of people holding 4000 pigeon shit domains and they keep renewing. uhg.
jayjay
@Domainer 99 said…
“Seems fairly obvious that all of the proposed gtld’s are crap and are of the same caliber as .mobi. It follows then, that all domains registered under them will be classified as PS.”
If you don’t see the ‘canary in the mine’ so to speak then your not looking for danger nor success ahead of you~
The proverbial canary in this case is the competition amongst registrars to apply for the same gTLD’s right of the dot. If they are sensible investors and know the potential market for certain gTLD’s they apply for it, simple.
Personally I’m not an advocate for them but at the same time they may make or break the fortunes for those willing to invest into, ‘make’ if domainers pick the right gTLD.
One of most applied for gTLD was .web a gTLD that probably should of been online many years ago. Several enterprises bidded on this name;
(http://www.newgtldsite.com/dot-web-tld-domain-names/ )
Which as I have written gives you insight into it’s value in the gTLD space.
To think that .web is in the same ‘caliber’ as .mobi and casino.web, porn.web, search.web, etc are all domains registered under .web that will be classified as ‘Pigeon Sh*t’ is an assumption at best and a failure to see canaries in the mine at worst!
Stud
This post has pure realities but you can say it in a nice way.
It is full of arrogance and egoistic self veneration. Not all domainers are like you, skilled and with deep pocket. most of them need guidance.
If all domainers have same attitude like you this industry was doomed 10 years ago. I know you have some achievements in domaining but you are not alone. How will you compare to these domainers?
Ron Jackson, Rick Latona,Elliot Silver,owen frager, Morgan Linton, Michael Berkens, Frank Schillings etc…
You? –> The most arrogant and full of bitterness and shit.
The title ‘domain king’ is not handed to you. You self proclaimed it, bought and trademarked. If it’s not egoistic i don’t know what’s called.
PS: I challenged you to post it, prick…
Rick Schwartz
Hey Stud,
Why don’t you take your own advice about posting in a nice way?
Look at your drivel. Just too funny.
I would be bitter too if I had 4000 worthless domains.
I would be bitter too when the girl next door makes more than you with her lemonade stand.
I posted your message so everyone could see what scum is still in domaining.
Luckily YOU are on your way OUT of the Business!!
I know we don’t know who you are and guess what? Nobody cares.
Just a bitter domainer that can’t point to a single success or has soiled their name so bad they can never post it.
Gee, I would hate to wake up and be YOU!
Bye, bye. Sorry your portfolio 100% PIGEON SHIT!!
Sorry you just can’t be skilled like the rest because you are too busy being bitter.
steve
I don’t know if he is a failure , but I do know he doesn’t like you. Just because he doesn’t like you doesn’t imply he is a failure. But he is a lowbie for not posting his name. Really, take a stand. If you can get over Rick’s attitude there is a lot to learn here. Rick definately was the first King but others will come and go like you mentioned. But none of them are sharing their secrets and knowledge.
I’ve figured out most of their game plans by watching them. But I am tempered living in dc and see scumbags in Congress destroying our country. They want a 70% tax rate thinking that will solve all the problems. They don’t know their history and this is the worst thing they can do. Domainers should start looking for other countries to move to.