Morning Folks!!
I will judge each gTLD on their own merits. And while there is a lot of stupid things being said, we have to know that there is more than one dance happening and for more than one audience. Domainers, Investors and the end-user. (Just kidding about the end-user) :-)
So in the case of .Club here are my thoughts:
1. They know this has nothing to do with .com or any other extension.
2. They are not saying silly and stupid things.
3. They understand the challenge they have in front of them even if their numbers may be a tad optimistic.
4. They see their place and role in the FABRIC of the Internet and domains without trying to weaken the other material. (When some others have to lower themselves and resort to "Dot com is dead" they are trying to weaken the very ship in which they sail on and look so silly and pathetic when they do so) Just tell me your benefits and that is what the .club guys do and they may not become big investment quality domains but I am certain they will establish themselves in the fabric and have a viable business.
5. I can think of many words and names to put left of the dot that actually make sense.
Compare that to .Horse. One is much more limited than the other. That is why 75% of ALL the gTLD's are not going to survive. There are simply not enough strings to make it viable after assuming the end-user is going to jump on that .Horse. Equal extensions?? I don't think so. .Horse does not get out of the gate for me. Are we not supposed to compare and weigh each of these against each other NOT .com?? That is their CRAP and it is CRAP. They have to compete against the other gTLD's and that is where they really crap out.
Now I am not blowing smoke. I told this directly to Jeff from .Club back in October and I did that several times. Want to know why?? We both asked "Where are the other guys?" .Club guys know it won't be easy. It really is a challenge. They are PREPARED for that challenge and many others are not. They can make a coherent case for why some folks would use a .club. It may or may not happen. But they know what their job is and they take it seriously. They even hired Berkens and Cahn so they understand the trail ahead is going to be a battle and are going in with their eyes wide open and I give them props for that!!
On the other hand the trash talk hurts everyone except those with a big bag of smoke. I am really shocked that the tone has taken on this direction before the business even starts. I talk one on one to fellow domainers and they too are stunned and can't get over how dumb they are starting to look. Check out these thoughts and maybe you will see what I mean. Talks about domainers being "Resistant to change" and other condescending and arrogant comments aimed at professional domainers. Just DUMB!
I am all for expansion. Not a threat. Won't hurt anyone reading this. I love it. But I think there is a lot of self-doubt these days. Why? Maybe you and I asked questions they never even thought of. And maybe they have no answers for valid questions so they need smoke and other schemes to pull off what may be impossible for most to pull off. It's that simple. Emotion is driving them and reality is squarely in their way and the closer they get to that reality the more they lash out. The timing and delays has only made things worse.
A domain is only a domain until there is a destination and a business there. Winners and losers will be defined by those that do that not the other way around. Pick any extension you like and want. Knock your socks off. All I know is any company that has had any degree of success off of a non .com eventually seeks the .com because they need it to continue to grow their companies.
And each company will do what they need to grow their own company. So if the domain and extension is good for his/her company, he will embrace. If not, he won't. Most customers might say "We already have our domain name" and that is the start and the end of the conversation that no gtld operator will be involved in or privy to. They won't be there making their case. Most will dismiss out of hand and be done with it never to give it another thought in their lifetime. That's reality.
And 1000 others will compete against all existing extensions and they will have whatever importance the public gives them. Period.
And by the way, the minute they bring up search or Google as a basis and a reason, that is even weaker than .mobi's reason. Google is like an answer to everything. Bull! Buy the damn traffic!! Everyone is so geared to fake out the system to get free traffic they forgot the real way is to buy it and pay for it and make money with it and then buy more.
Is it nice to get a Google listing? Yep! Well I am telling you it is RELEVANCE on a subject that will get you there. The domain is not for Google. The domain is for the consumer. The domain is for ease of advertising. The domain is for easy word of mouth. Some folks have it so entangled they can't see straight any more.
It's so transparent. Like sitting out in front of Google yelling pick me!! pick me!!! Stop faking out search and build a site that has something of value to offer or a product to sell and ADVERTISE! Use any vehicle you want. The domain either tells a story or is a brand or is identifiable or is unique or is special in some other regard that lets you stand out. If a gTLD helps them do that, they will embrace, if not......
So fellas, not all extensions are equal. Some are more equal than others. The .club guy made his case and it held water. Now that is good for them. They will register more than enough domains to be profitable and viable as a registry. It still has the hurdle of being investment quality and that happens in time as demand grows or not. Perception. Value. The X factor. All types of variables. They don't tell me that their baby is going to be 7FT tall and break all basketball records and led the NBA in scoring for 6 straight years. I mean what these others are doing is even sillier than that.
To me there is no gTLD's. There are 1000 extensions that have no relation and we all know that .web is the only extension that is really being taken seriously by domainers as a whole for those that even think there is something over here. Why? Because it is generic, it makes sense and it could be very widespread. If this was a horse race, .web would win before most others are out of the gate. The margins of imaginary pre-registrations tell the predictable story. Just verify's what we know. .Web is the one to watch. It will either prop up .net or sweep .net into 3rd place in that 10-20 year horizon some are speaking of.
If .web were out there would be much more interest. There is little oxygen right now for all these folks. Little interest. Little quality. I will buy .web when it arrives. Maybe. Depending. But I see mass viability and acceptance. It is a NATURAL FIT and not forced. Does not mean you make money right away. Could be a sub cousin to .net or .org or could be a monster. That is the #1 threat for the new gTLD's. .Web. .Period.
I look at all the extensions and I want to hear their case. I just am sick of swallowing their bullshit. Tell me the benefits ONLY. If you have to resort to attack and BS you lose. Game over. Tell me how many strings you have with an extension. Tell me all the stuff you forgot to ask and don't even know but can preach the oceans of .Com parting for some .whatever!
Yesterday we debated .link. The debate is still going. Point, counterpoint. Let's pick the subject apart and then each will decide. I said I thought it was the strongest gTLD I know about of his. There were a wide range of views. I like hearing all the arguments and those scared to argue have to spew.
I want to thank Frank for having that lively debate yesterday over here. We are all looking for answers. We all want to make money. But the first rule of making money, is not losing money and that is for each to explain. Why their investments are safe and why they will grow. That burden is not on any domainer. It is on each registry to make a coherent case. We will accept or reject based on what we see and business basics. Let's see what is listed on DNJournal in 2014 and 2015. We know from history that at the 1 and 2 year anniversay and renewal cycles there are massive amounts of domains that can be had for $20 and $30. Wheel barrel filled with keywords with no value and no demand.
Did anyone pick up my .mobi drops? My .co drops? Does anyone care?
Rick Schwartz
Robbie
I personally feel web is a dated term much like cyber. I feel more people refer to the Internet from a “net” basis.
I also think .web does not sound to attractive when put into ecommerce type saying… BuyShoes.web, CarParts.web, Fly.web, MakeMoney.web, Loans.web
Is it me or does it just not look right?
Martin
Robbie, I so agree. Dot Net to my ears is more attractive. Truly do not see how a 2014 Dot web can compete with a 1985 [yes, .net is that old] extension.
Would be funny if .web bleeds traffic to .net [a hole in a boat].
Lol. Wouldn’t surprise me.
Rick Schwartz
I just see . Web as the best chance as a long shot against a field of other longer shots and impossible dreams.
I am happy to give each podium time to make their case to a jury of professional domainers. I want to see what their vision is without the fairy tales.
DonnyM
I advertise on adwords but only with a great local name in my business.
Here is one thing I can say. If you’re using a .com you will get a higher CTR on adwords. If you use any other extension or a long drawn out name, or even with dashes your CTR will be lower. The cost savings is huge. People look at the URL when they click.
If you ran the same ad with the same message and only changed the URL at the bottom, .com wins. With adwords if your CTR is higher you’re paying less for ads over the lifetime of the campaign.
When you point out that “The domain is for the consumer” you’re 100% right on. At the end the day the consumer clicks the ad and they decide. It is no different that advertising on a billboard, mass mailing or even radio. DonnyM
BullS
As I said before, I will pay for the registration fees for anyone who register BullshitWebsites dot co or dot whatever .
All you have to do is promote the BullshitWebsites dot whatever in social media, twitter etc etc for 6 mths.
Take the challenge and I will thank you.
UFO
I like .club, I see it as social media connected. Club is like Group which is people of like minds.
I think it will be a successful gTLD which isn’t likely to be useful for domainers on the whole given the more social and less ‘for profit’ orientation of the extension.
.Club (if they are listening) may find that there is far more money to be made in providing net based services to clubs than in the gTLD itself. Loads of small clubs have a need want desire etc for an easy to use WordPress theme etc thats suitable for their ‘club’. Loads of cross selling, get some bundles going and I’m sure there will be a take up.
JBS
“I personally feel web is a dated term much like cyber.” I have felt the same way ever since I heard that extension was coming. Does the younger generation even use that term? And true, it really doesn’t sound right with many phrases. I am mostly interested in a few defensive registrations with the new gTLDs but I won’t bother with .web because it sounds so stupid with my particular keywords. If a competitor wants to use it for a competing product / service in my niche, have at it… But it will still likely get the highest level of interest from domainers. Rick is probably right about that.
About “.club” being a tad optimistic in their projects – LOL. 1,000,000 first year registrations. Yeah, might be just a tad off with that number…
Great post though – especially regarding domains and Google. Makes sense to me!
Martin
I truly believe the only thing holding back .com nowadays is this .whatever clusterfuck. That said, after this nonsense has passed, I expect to see some serious serious previously restrained .com sales to go through. Somewhat silly that all this has to play itself out to reach the inevitable but is what it is…I guess.
Rick Schwartz
We have to walk over one last coal of fire to prove what was discovered in the 1990’s and will be 2015 and 2016 before we get there.
JBS
This might be the only domain blog left with an unbiased, unemotional, uninvested, and sober assessment of the new gTLDs… Glad you are still posting on the subject!
Christopher Ambler
It’s a pity, I suppose, that whomever ends up running .web does so, by my opinion, through outright theft.
Almost 20 years of work and ICANN simply says, “thanks, it’s ours now.”
Me? Bitter? Yeah.
Rich
Yes Rick i just picked up virtualcasino.co and bankruptcyattorneys.co
Were they yours?
I like .club it’s a generic international word.They will do good with that extension but they are dreaming when they say $5 mil. in 5 years.
I like their price.I will invest.
Robbie & Martin@
Here’s a link that explains the difference of NET and WEB
http://netforbeginners.about.com/od/internet101/f/the_difference_between_internet_and_web.htm
To put it very simple Net is the restaurant and WEB is the most popular dish on the menu.
.Web has a better fit in today’s online business then .net that is referred mostly on communicating one computer to another,that’s is why i think .web will surplus .Net at one point in our life time.
JBS
“To put it very simple Net is the restaurant and WEB is the most popular dish on the menu.”
Consumer adaption has little to do with technical definitions. I would take that bet – .web might get a bunch of initial registrations but will likely never get close to the same number of actual developed websites as .net. At least not in the next 10 years…
Michael
I agree Rick “We have to walk over one last coal of fire”
The 1000’s of extensions has to be done for the internet! It’s the only way anyone would ever know if it works or not, we need real data. I am currently reprogramming my bako site to get rid of the 28 city sub-domains I created for it. I am going to put the cities behind the .com, It’s an experiment and lots of work but it’s the only way for sure I will know which way is better.
Kassey
Great point on traffic. You buy it, not fake it. As Warren Buffett always says, you don’t want to depend on the kindness of strangers — or search engines for that matter.
Robbie
To the guy who just picked up VirtualCasino.co, does not look like Rick was the previous owner, actually you are now the 3rd owner of this short lived extension to date, and the previous owner was from Nigeria… .co’s are a tough sell regardless of the generic keywords, I have some from the first day of registration including good 3L .co’s, and they are a very hard to move.
John
I see Chris Ambler posted here. @Chris, I have wondered about you from time to time, especially since it seemed you kind of dropped off the face of the earth these past x number of years. I remember seeing you post many years ago in DNF. I definitely have felt bad for you over this. If you are reading my post here, I have been curious to know if you had wound up applying for .web again and paying that $185K fee nonetheless despite everything you went through before with it. It doesn’t sound like it from your post here, though. I did notice there had also been a lawsuit. I also remember someone mentioning on DNF in a thread with you years ago how they had paid for regs when you began with it, and whether you wound up having to take a hit on that as well. Years ago I would even find .web’s already online, and you could do a .web search on Google and find plenty of them. I don’t know all the facts of the matter, but so far personally I have not forgotten about this and have felt very sorry about this whole saga regarding you – after all, folks, just put yourself in the same shoes for a moment – and I think as domainers or even only “quasi/almost domainers” like myself we should acknowledge this history, especially as we may go about trying to acquire any .web’s ourselves.
John
By the way, I’m going to share a very cynical thought here that I have thought from time to time in contemplation of this matter of .web over the years. First, in complete candor, while it’s true that I was not thrilled about the idea of some early birds having an inside scoop on registering .web domains instead of a more open and “fair” competition, which I suppose meant the best ones had already been taken, everything I said above about feeling bad for Chris Ambler and about this whole matter is also true. But the really cynical thought I’ve entertained from time to time over the years is that what may really have been going on with it has to do with the undeniable anti-American animosity that has burned here and there in the world; i.e., that the “real problem” may have been that Chris Ambler and his company were American, and the US already has this, that and the other thing, etc. My hunch is that someone somewhere or some “ones” simply didn’t want to allow .web to be acquired by another American entity, since it’s obvious to all of us that .web is the only best and truly generic and authoritative gTLD left that generically and authoritatively signifies “Internet/World Wide Web.” (Yes, we know that’s true and it’s plain in the very word itself, even if “.link” is something that is also “good” and winds up doing well.) So if I’m right and whoever may have been behind a sentiment like that still feel that way, my hunch is that what you will see is a non-American entity winds up being awarded .web. And God willing, time will tell.
Leonard Britt
While I would agree .Web seems to be one of the best new GTLDs being offered, my view is that it is no better than .Info or .CO. So yes it will likely receive a fair number of domainer registrations but how much are end users really going to pay for a keyword.web vs keyword.com or even keyword.net? .Web is still not compelling enough for me. How do these sound… Sports.web, Miami.web, Travel.web, Love.web, Pets.web – great keywords but add a .web on the end and my reaction is yuck. Yes, someone will be willing to pay a few or several hundred dollars for these but what about lesser keywords? Sorry, I am just not convinced.
AlanR
Rick, this debate is reminding me of the great .mobi debate we had on your board years ago, when that extension was first coming out. There were two bullshit artists in particular, on your board who come to mind that were really pushing it on all the members. They had a lot of people convinced that it would be the next dotcom so a lot of people bought into their bullshit, their agenda and bought .mobi. I’m going to guess that members on your board lost somewhere over $500,000 investing in that extension because of all the bullshit propaganda that guys like them were spewing at the time. I wonder if they ever felt bad about all the money lost because of their bullshit. Lot’s of painful lessons were learned but unfortunately, it took about 2 years for those lessons to sink in.
I took a lot of arrows for my stance because I saw through all of that bullshit and let my opinion be known. Let’s say I wasn’t very popular for my views and was laughed at by a lot of my peers! Then came .co along with the same actors and the same bullshit! A lot of the lessons learned from the .mobi disaster were ignored and so history pretty much repeated itself again. Now, it looks like we have a lot more actors on the stage spewing the same shit and I can tell that they have a lot of takers already lining up to eagerly buy tickets. It looks like we are about to see history repeat itself, again but in a bigger way this time. Hopefully, this will be the last time so we can get this industry back on track. I guess when a person gets gold fever, it’s not very easy to think clearly since it seems that a lot of hard learned lessons go right out the window.
AlanR
Thankfully Rick, you are ringing the alarm bell to warn everyone that we are about to get a whole new and bigger round of bullshit. I appreciate that we have this open platform to debate this topic without all the influences of the big money that is now pouring into other forums and blogs. Those guys are essentially being bought which in turn makes them bias. It pretty much makes their blogs moot when it comes to making honest opinions about domains and this industry. In 2 or 3 years when this whole debacle is pretty much over, your blog will pretty much be the only one left standing that didn’t take money from registries peddling their influence. You will keep your credibility while they won’t.
Rich
Robbie my name is Rich
I have bought in the first day 1000 .co’s
i have inquiries every day on LLL especially on LLL
If you do a little digging you can see my site and what i have.
Try to find i good .co see if you can but this is not the time and the place to talk about .co,not on Rick’s blog LOL
Klem
And their argument in favor of new tlds is that “There is just too much invested in the industry for it not to work.” …Shaun Le Cornu, go home and practice.
Jeff Sass
Rick, thanks for the call out and the kind words. As you said, we definitely have our work cut out for us, but there’s nothing wrong with work. ;-)
I really like this statement of yours:
“The domain either tells a story or is a brand or is identifiable or is unique or is special in some other regard that lets you stand out. If a gTLD helps them do that, they will embrace, if not……”
Because I do think the opportunity for gTLDs is to provide meaning and branding… to help make it easier to find what you are looking for (i.e. brand.shop for their storefront, brand.club for their loyalty program, brand.wiki for their wiki, etc.) All of these can work in concert with a good .com and not as a replacement. And of course for those who don’t have a good .com, or are new to the Internet, there will be more choice, and more choice is almost always good for the consumer…
We look forward to continuing the discussion (and the adventure)…
-Jeff Sass, .CLUB Domains
Jeff Sass
Thanks UFO… We are listening, and agree that .CLUB lends itself well to a platform and other services geared toward making it easy to brand, start and manage a club… Stay tuned. ;-)
– Jeff Sass, .CLUB Domains
Jeff Sass
Thanks Rich, and glad to hear you’ll invest. Yes we have a big goal, but you are right to point out that CLUB is a word that is recognized – in English – and holds the same meaning, all over the world… That’s one of the reasons we do have a big goal. Dream big, right?
– Jeff Sass, .CLUB Domains
Altaf
I do agree with DonnyM. It is the domainers/ advertisers who could make a new gTLD famous. Why .Net or other old .ext was not promoted? Finding that answer is the TOUGH question.
Jeff Schneider
Hello Jeff,
Please tell us the definitive no B.S. reason why .Club is better than /Club ??
We can think of many obvious reasons why the .COM/Club is Vastly Superior.
Gratefully, Jeff Schneider (Contact Group) (Metal Tiger)
Michael
Jeff Schneider instead of .COM/Club, (keyword)club.com would be better. Like 21club.com
Dan
I live in a town just outside of Sacramento called Elk Grove, CA. City Mayor Statistics says it is #152 of the largest cities in the US with 153,000 population. It’s bigger than Bridgeport; Connecticut, Savannah; Georgia and Pasadena; California just for some perspective. Checking available domains for Elk Grove today I find these available .. ElkGrove.travel ElkGrove.tel ElkGrove.cat ElkGrove.xxx ElkGrove.name .. maybe something there for an end user maybe not.. you would think a travel agency would snap up the .travel and i bet they would… if they knew it existed… or not.
Steve Cheatham
“dot com: legacy and trusted; dot whatever: yet to be seen.” Need I say more? Rick I say .club competes with .org in many ways. Maybe I agree it has a better chance than most. (wetsprings.garden.club maybe?) but still, with all the others that were OK then went down in flames I will have to wait and see. There are too many tld emerging at once to do precise estimates. When technology changes like this the landscape changes for a while and chaos reigns. Then it flushes out. My weather report from NamesCon is the hype is waist deep and rising. I wonder how long it will last? I am guessing 24 months. How hard will it make it to build successful web site? I say not at all. Is there a market out there large enough to absorb all the tld’s at once? I say is no. So hang on for about 24 months. (hopefully less).
Jeff Sass
Jeff S. and Michael,
I don’t think it is necessarily a direct competition or that there’s a be-all, end-all answer. Each case is different. If you have a long name then a yourlongname.club may be more appealing than yourlongnameclub.com. If you’ve had to abbreviate your name from Boca Raton Country Club to BRCC.com in order to get a .com then BocaRatonCountry.club might be a more clear and expressive name than BRCC, where those initials could stand for many different companies… If you’ve got an awesome .com name already, congrats. But if you’ve settled for a second or third choice, or if you’ve made concessions to modify or abbreviate in order to find a name, it just might be possible that a .CLUB (or some other new TLD) is a very logical, memorable and marketable option instead. And of course if you are new to the Internet or starting a new venture, all bets are off. Get the best, most memorable name you can, regardless of what’s to the right of the dot.
As for .com/club, again it depend on what’s to the left of the dot, what business you are in or what you are trying to convey, but generally I think from a branding and marketing perspective an address by itself is easier to remember than an address/something. In our case, especially if you are indeed a club.
Jeff, you mentioned you can think of “many obvious reasons why the .COM/Club is Vastly Superior.” I’d love for you to share them as it would be valuable for us to understand your point of view. Thanks!
– Jeff Sass, .CLUB Domains
Jeff Schneider
Hello Jeff S.
If you are expecting a long litany of reasons why the .COM Business Model Brand is Strategically Desirable, its simpler than you think? The .COM BRAND has been satisfying Consumers Emotional Needs for close to 20 years. If you understand Consumers Emotional Needs, the sale is a done deal. SIMPLE
OCCAMS RAZOR
Gratefully, Jeff Schneider (Contact Group) (Metal Tiger)
Jeff Sass
Thanks Jeff S. (I guess there are two of us),
No long litany expected or required. :-) I wasn’t asking about the desirability of .com, which I’ve never disputed. I was just asking for some insights as to why .com/club was “vastly superior” to .club. I don’t think it is that simple because what’s to the left of the dot probably makes a difference. For my taste, if I am Boca Raton Country Club, then BocaRaton.club or BocaRatonCountry.club is a better name than BocaRaton.com/club or BocaRatonCountry.com/club. But we can agree to disagree… After all that’s what makes .horse races!
-Jeff Sass, .CLUB Domains
Jeff schneider
Hello Jeff Sass,
Nothing personal, but you need to focus on my response and find the right answer to my concept. Its frustrating to look for an answer when there really is no satisfactory answer, I really hope you can ignore the futility of this all , for your own sake.
UFO
@Jeff Sch
Not sure you fully ‘get’ clubs. .com is great for commercial enterprises and domainers because thats where the money is.
However, many not for profit entities like using .org, they don’t want to be seen as commercial as .com is firmly etched into peoples minds as about commercially motiated.
Hence, I see plenty of not for profit clubs liking .club. Clubs are less suseptile to losing traffic because people looking for them are not as suseptible to natural sustitutes.
I hope people cam see their are naturally occuring groups that work as domains thats why .com .org .gov .club all have their place.
Rick Schwartz
The ones that make sense have their place, will find their place and do fine in the fabric of the Internet. The ones that don’t? Who cares? Answer: Nobody cares.
Complete List of Domain Extensions (2016 INFOGRAPHIC)
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